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Talk:Timeline
A few things have changed in recent times, prompting going to create actual articles: *StarCraft Wiki is set to be a fansite of Blizzard, which suggests a degree of scrutiny. It would be best to provide relevant information on a public level. *One issue we never considered was that of Loomings, which gives absolute dates for the early battles on Chau Sara. Loomings was released in 2003, same as Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne. StarCraft II also began development in this same year. Circa the start of development of SCII, Blizzard hadn't altered the timeline. *Fanon timelines have influenced canon before. The timeline for Harry Potter is an example, it being established unintentionally in The Chamber of Secrets that the book took place in 1992, a date which gave way to the rest of the timeline. And as we already have a few key absolute dates to go by, it's easy to stem outwards. *The timeline is easy to change, and so many dates have wormed their way into articles that the idea of keeping a timeline in reserve has become redundant. We've written information under false pretenses before-at least if Blizzard does change the timeline (which it doesn't seem intent on doing), we have a list of what these pretenses are.--Hawki 06:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC) Ancient History dates Shouldn't this, this, this and this take place much earlier? The Overmind was "countless millenia" old and the Protoss Empire is surely much more than 3000 years old. XEL 21:16, 13 October 2008 (UTC) Keep in mind that "countless millenia" is a bit subjective and that the Overmind has also used terms such as "several millenia". The dates are vague, but are somewhat reliable in that we know when the dark templar were banished from Aiur based on Raszagal's age and the banning of the formation of the dark archons. As these events are depicted in Shadow Hunters, which mentions early events as taking place millenia beforehand or hundreds of years, we can work our way back.--Hawki 06:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC) Well, I think the Aeon of Strife really ended many millenia before banshing of the Dark Templar. After all, the united Protoss society is very ancient. XEL 09:26, 14 October 2008 (UTC) More Ancient History Right, now for a take on history. First, the new dates. Like conventional dating, they've been rounded up/down to multiples of 100. This is in sync with standard dating (eg. we always say 1000 years ago, not 1003, even if that is the correct date) and we can't be 100% accurate. However, with these rounded dates, a template that states they're rounded would be a good thing to have. Now to work back: 1500 -Dark Templar were banished 1000 years before StarCraft. This is backed up by a number of traits. Raszagal's age for starters-over 1000 years old, yet still fairly developed as seen in SH. Her ages seen across time allow this. -Dark Archons banned 1000 years ago. Fits in with DT unleashing psionic powers. After all, Archons were created by accident. I'm willing to bet that DAs were by accident too. -In SH, Jake reflects how protoss history over the last 1000 years is, while not as bloody as terran history, still with its attrocities. This just makes it into the timeframe of banishment. -So as the DA reference, when cross referenced, is 1000 years before SC: BW, this places it around 1500. 500 AD There's a few key dates from SH here, the past taking place around the time of the DT banishment. Consider that: -Kortanul mentions all the rebuilding "we have done over the last millenium." -Mentioned in the narrative that the protoss had remained unified for a thousand years. Now granted, this could be references to the end of the AoE. However, other date mentions contradict this (see 500 BCE). Consider that the end of the AoE does not immediatly mean that the protoss are unified. THings take time. The world as we know it is more unified than it was thousands of years ago. We have the UN, the League of Nations before that. But there isn't a central world authority. Maybe there will be, maybe there won't. Humanity has moved towards unification over the centuries, and it would take time for the protoss too. The Conclave founding mention in the old 500 article was probably an error on my part. Exactly who Kortanul refers to as "we" is nebulous. At first, I assumed he meant "we as the Conclave". However, as Xel (or Psi, I forget) pointed out, the BW manual states that the Conclave existed for many thousands of years. In hindsight, 500 is probably too late a founding date. After all, that gives only two millenia, and "several" is defined as more than two, but less than many. Overall, the Conclave, or some form of it, was founded earlier. The proverbial UN before becoming Aiur's authority. 500 BCE This marks the end of the AoE, as oppsoed to 500 AD. This is backed up by: -Adun reflects that the protoss were savages thousands of years ago. This would mean at least two, and is taken beyond the date. It fits in the timeframe of stone age protoss, where they were at their lowest, before Khas reunified them. -It's mentioned in SH that Khas discovered the psychic link over two millenia ago. Occurring in 1500, this would place it beyond 500 BCE, namely a thousand years beforehand. However, rounding up (or down) still seems the best option. Besides, the AoE only lasted a few centuries... 1500 BCE -It's mentioned in both Firstborn and the manual that the AoE featured centuries of hatred, fighting, etc. However, this is rounded up to a thousand approx. Still centuries, but not more than one millenia. The key figure here is the creation of the Overmind. It claims to have existed for "uncounted centuries" (or words to that effect). Yet in the manual, we have the mention of it existing for "several" millenia. Traditionally, several means more than two, usually three or for. So, if one applies this logic, the Overmind was created in either... 500 BCE or 1500 BCE The latter is more likely. Firstly, it's a bigger number and is closer to the Overmind's reference to its age. Secondly, it fits in with the xel'naga's departure from Aiur. It couldn't have taken them long to get to Zerus, given their technology and extra-galactic origins. And it's mentioned that it only took a few centuries for the zerg to consume all life on Zerus. And within a few generations, the zerg had bent biology to their own ends and become savage and unified. As such, it appears that the Overmind was created almost right from the start. Overall, it appears that a paradox exists of protoss de-evolution and zerg evolution occurring simultaniously. Ancient History Beyond this point, we can't get exact. A few millenia references are mentioned in the manual as to early protoss history, but at this point in time, we can't really go any further back and remain accurate. Anyway, this is what I've deduced from the timeline. Of course, interpretation is with the possibility of error, and I've made them before. Any corrections/suggestions are welcome.--Hawki 02:53, 26 October 2008 (UTC) AoS's descriptions in the manual also used terms such as "countless generations of the Protoss" (Protoss live for about 1000 years) and "thousands of year". For simplicity's sake lets assume it started in 1500 BC. Also, the Xel'Naga were conducting their pre-Protoss experiments tens of millions years ago. XEL 07:54, 26 October 2008 (UTC) I don't know if we can time the xel'naga departure from Aiur very well. (It doesn't help that an "Aeon" can be a really long period of time.) The Dark Templar Saga just muddied the waters there (just like with the timing of the end of the Aeon of Strife). Just to be on the safe side, I'm putting virtually any event that occurs before the end of the Aeon of Strife as "ancient history". On another note, what sort of events are supposed to go into the timeline? Do really minor events need to go into it? Kimera 757 (talk) 01:53, 10 November 2008 (UTC) I personally feel that clarifying the timeline rather than muddying it was a strength of the DTS, but that's another matter entirely. Still, I guess history prior to its ending can be grouped in Ancient History as the start of the AoE has never been given a solid date, only the ending. As for what events to include-if we were documenting the history of the real world, then there'd obviously be a limit to what dates we could include. However, this being a wiki that deals with a world of fiction, there's far less info for us to deal with and as such, seems wise to include it. A theoretical restriction however, is on real-world events and dates themselves. In theory, if we were so inclined, we could include every aspect of Earth and human history in the timeline, as these things exist in the SC universe. However, I think that most people would agree that this would be a waste of space. As such, events and organizations should be included, timeline and article wise, if they have some relevance to the universe itself. It's really up to general consensus what this includes, though by way of example, I considered it worth mentioning the translation of the Rosetta Stone, as Ramsey reflects on such an event. However, the date of the stone's discovery and creation would probably be going out on a tangent. On one hand, it seemed worth having articles representing the space race and UN, as these were activities/organizations that continued into the future that terran history covers. On the other, listing the specifics of these things would be going on a tangent. Real-dates have a place in sci-fi universes, judging by other timelines I've seen, though limits have to be applied. I think something can be said for including them in StarCraft, as the terrans have a sketchy history of Earth (at least before the UED's arrival) and this can be used as a measure of information in a sense. Still, restraint still applies. On the other, I don't think there should be a limit to fictional information (as in exclusive to StarCraft itself), as considering that a fictional universe can never be as expansive as the real-world, it's best to be inclusionistic rather than exclusionistic, as following the latter course can see things 'get small'--Hawki 08:01, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Waste of Space It's staggering how so much space is wasted on some of these entries; is it really necessary for an entire page to be dedicated to the year 2464 because some no-name third-tier character was born then? The timeline would work a lot more smoothly if most of these entries were simply consolidated into this page as a list, with years where multiple important events happened (like 2499) are left as detailed individual entries. 18:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC) I disagree that the timeline would work better in a mix of consolidated and single year entries, because that raises the whole problem of what to consolidate and what not to. The reason I settled on year-based entries is because obscure years with single entries can rapidly become more fullfilled with the release of new media, I, Mengsk being an example of this. From experience with other wikis, a timeline can only function in a single list or some kind of division of articles, years logically being as small as we can get. And due to the cluster of dates in certain years, a single article would be a nightmare. List articles were used in the early days of this wiki for weapons, planets, etc. and they were a nightmare to re-categorize when they branched out.--Hawki 01:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC) Enslavers II Enslavers II needs to be fit into here somehow. It took place right after Fury of the Xel'Naga and mission three took place after the UED invasion of Korhal. I figure we can put in its approximate time "location" and just give a link for those who have more interest. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 00:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Books in chronological order Info to be added to the timeline (or a related page) once organized/prettified: *2478: I, Mengsk starts *2480 (approximately): Sarah Kerrigan's backstory, as presented in StarCraft: Hybrid (and a bit of Uprising) *2491: StarCraft: Uprising *2489: Valerian chapter of I, Mengsk starts. *September 2499: Liberty's Crusade, first chapter. *November 2499: StarCraft: Loomings. *December 2499: Liberty's Crusade, second chapter starts. Speed of Darkness. *December 2499 or January 2500: StarCraft: Ghost: Nova (first half) *June 2500: StarCraft (comic) prologue. Liberty's Crusade ends. End of part 3 of StarCraft: Ghost: Nova. *July or August 2500: Queen of Blades starts. *Late 2500: StarCraft ends. Shadow of the Xel'Naga. *Early 2501: Brood War Episode V begins. *Interbellum: Period between Brood War and StarCraft II. Much fiction takes place during this time, often undated. Very last portion of StarCraft: Ghost: Nova ends here. *2502: I, Mengsk ends. StarCraft (comic) *Late 2502/Early 2503: Prologue of StarCraft: Ghost: Nova. Most of the last chapter of Nova. *2505: StarCraft: Spectres and Dark Templar Saga.